Yesterday, I posted reactions from RLSH about last week's famous incident with Phoenix Jones. Whatever you may think of his actions an enhanced video that has just been released should prove that what he was running into was indeed a fight- and a pretty heated one at that.
The cropped and magnified video shows you what Jones, myself, RCSM member Ghost, and Ryan McNamee (who shot the video) saw.
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It's a good thing you posted this - it does rather clearly show thrown punches before Phoenix Jones even enters the recorded frame from the lower-right. The punches that matter most are right before his appearance, in the lower-right corner of the frame.
ReplyDeleteEt tu, Tea?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk
LOL
ReplyDeleteOoookay. It's not like rational people with eyes didn't actually think there was a brawl going on.
ReplyDeleteWhat concerns me most, is that (as reported in these pages) Phoenix Jones provokes confrontations for his headlines. The vigilante, working for what One supposes is his upcoming Documentary, is being promoted and this spurs other vigilante groups, also being promoted. See the New York Initiative.
ReplyDeleteAnd then One came across Knightfox Paradox (www.facebook.com/theknightfox )who appears to be promising to go on yet another "superhero vigilante patrol" so that he can get his headlines too. Except he's promising to take it yet another step further. With guns. Maybe, following the example of Jones - "attack indiscriminately" (see the innocent women who suffered from his chemical attack), but with lethal weapons. In superhero Ninja suits.
He's only depicting himself (and others) with handguns in Facebook. Perhaps when they're "on patrol" they carry shotguns? It's not clear exactly what they intend to do, other than follow the vigilante example and take justice into their own hands - for "Fame". Like Phoenix Jones. When Villains threaten to "enslave the world", we're careful to specify it's fanciful. But superheroes - even Master Legend - they're Dead serious about their claims - they believe that there are people who must be Punished with extreme force.
Knightfox Paradox is not alone in the superhero community carrying guns on "patrol". There are MANY superheroes who are mentally disturbed (not a professional diagnosis, a common sense label applied to people who have lost touch with reality, and put "Caping Up" as more important than acquiring and holding gainful employment) who also are hearing the promoted stories of vigilantes, and are also hearing the stories of superheroes carrying guns. How soon before these three indices (crazy/vigilante/guns) cross? And what will be the consequence?
-Lord Malignance
Alright, this is proof that there was a fight. But it's also proof that Phoenix in fact DID pepper spray the shoegirl, who also in fact did absolutely nothing throughout the fight; it looked like she helplessly watched. In no means did he have to barge in and point the pepper spray at anybody, no matter how bad the situation was. All he had to do was appear in the middle, and that would've been distraction enough for the group. And to Lord Malignance; I agree 100%. I hope that nutjob using guns figures things out before it's too late.
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone really bought the "dancing" explanation, anyway.
ReplyDeleteI keep seeing people complaining that there is nothing out there to keep the RLSH in check and that is an absolute farce. I'm not going to argue that PJs actions were right or wrong. What I will say is that if PJ was arrested by the police, jailed, had to post a substantial amount of money in bail and tried before a court of law as per the judicial system of this county then clearly he was held accountable for his actions - for better or worse. So this idea that certain people feel compelled/required to create counter personas to keep the RLSH is check is rather silly. If the RLSH step out of line PJ's situation as well as the guy dressing up as Batman on the roof top proved quite OBVIOUSLY that the justice system will crack down on them.
ReplyDeleteThey might get arrested. They might get jailed. They might get fined. They might even be required to stand before a court of LAW and explain their actions and have the justice system adjudicate the right and wrong of it all.
But seriously, people need to stop perpetuating the lie that has been so blatantly exposed that their is no accountability for the actions of the RLSH. It might provide for some fodder for people to make fun of the RLSH with but in the end it is still a lie.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteFirst, One is a "Villain" for no other reason but my own, as One suspects others are. We do not take any responsibility for the actions or control of "superheroes".
Second, "Not held responsible"? What of the very real Fear these unaccountable agents of playtime "justice" create? The distrust of law enforcement, when Jones frequently announces to his audience, as many other vigilantes do, that the Police are inadequate, and his "admission" that they should be doing something else instead? What of the very real danger his antics will prompt as other vigilantes to go out and take justice into their own hands? Perhaps, as One has stated elsewhere, with guns?
The Lie as you mistakenly believe, is that they are held responsible. The truth is that they are not held responsible.
When the first child dies because they thought to attack some criminal by playing "batman", will you be the first ("Anonymous") to acknowledge the heroes by their avocation of playing vigilante-batman are responsible?
One thinks you will not. You vehemently, like the rest of the "superheroes" will deny any responsibilities for their actions. Their websites. Their interviews. Their posters. Their frequent membership recruiting activities. Their adventure stories. Their training manuals. Their advice columns. Their tutoring programs. They ARE selling a product, and that product is irresponsible, dangerous, and harmful, to society, and to individuals caught in their web of deceit.
Bring better material next time.
-Lord Malignance
PJ was specifically "held accountable" only for whether or not the DA believed there was sufficient evidence to make a criminal case against him at this time.
ReplyDeleteMy point, despite your attempt conveniently twist to your own means, is that when a RLSH screws up they are not above the law. The PJ case proved it, as did the Batman case, the Viper case, and other examples out there.
ReplyDeleteThe law enforces accountability and it will continue to do so, regardless of your attempts to state or prove otherwise.
And speaking of irresponsible behavior, I've seen RLSVs on Facebook making admissions of drug dealing and also a few who thought it would be comical to practice pyromania for the sole purpose of drawing fire fighters or other emergency response personel from areas where they would be needed. Tell me something LM, how long before one of these acts of childish malice by an RLSV causes a death or serious injury because the emergency personel that could have helped the victim were too busy responding to fire or some other incident started just for the sake of lulz?
Believe me, RLSH, RLSV, or anything else - you screw up badly and the law won't care what side you are on.
And lastly, you state the following "They ARE selling a product, and that product is irresponsible, dangerous, and harmful, to society, and to individuals caught in their web of deceit."
Does this apply to guys like Crossfire and Silver Sentinel as well? Yeah...that's what I thought.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteOne has seen those irresponsible posts by RLSV, and has worked to combat those too. My comments are frequent, and pointed, and public for your searches. Irresponsibility is wrong weather as Villain or hero. You are invited to speak against that activity there, as well as here. Odd that you will comment to criticize Villains, but only defend heroes. Why is that? Wrong is wrong, and One acts accordingly. Still - the difference you're avoiding acknowledging is that Villains pantomime danger, while heroes cause danger. The Actual and the shadow. Know which one is the danger to focus most on, and speak accordingly.
Your last point is poor. Do Crossfire and Silver sell Vigilante activities like Jones? They do not, so my criticism for them is abrogated. Do they support others, who do support Jones? Yes, yes they do. But they are learning.
-Lord Malignance
So there clearly was a fight, which most people agreed upon anyway, so let's for the moment assume Jones's initial actions were justified. I am not saying they were but just for the sake of argument. At around the seven or eight minute mark in the full video, after the hit and run, there is clearly a place were nothing is going on. The heroes have encountered the group for the second time and they just seem to be standing across the street doing nothing. Words are exchanged, the heroes yell that the cops are on their way, and at one point one of the girls can clearly be heard to yell "Leave us alone!" At this point Jones and his crew are escalating things just by their presence. It is easy to armchair quaterback but it seems to me that a responsible course of action, whether you are wearing a mask or not, would have been to walk around the corner out of sight and await the police there. Then, most likely,there would have been no pursuit,and things would have never have reached the stage they did. The police would have probably done little more than a drive by, and there would have been no arrests, no headlines, and no controversy. Even as it is we have what amounts to little more than a drunken brawl in which no one was seriously hurt. Even the hit and run victim walked away. The police have come under fire for their handling of things, and they probably could have talked to more people on the scene, but even if they had conducted things like a high profile murder investigation I doubt they would have come up with more than a few misdemeanor disorderly conduct charges (or something)on both sides. Jones wasn't charged because there wasn't enough evidence to convict and for no other reason. This time. Remember according to Mr. Krulos's statement he had peppersprayed at least one other person that night in an earlier altercation. Sounds to me like the Seattle police's allegations that he has gone a little trigger happy with the mace are on the mark. If Jones continues on his present course it is just a matter of time before he is brought down, either by the police for going overboard, or when he gets himself in over his head and really does end up in the emergencey room. Let's just hope he wises up and nobody gets hurt. For anyone who hasn't seen it I would direct your attention to the seattleweekly.com article of June 1st 2011, "The (Alleged) Adventures of Phoenix Jones". It is an objective, well researched article that attempts to verify some of his claims rather than just taking everything he says at face value. Jones ends up looking pretty foolish. Read the article for yourself. A general question, mainly for Lord Malignance, but everyone else out there, too. How do you feel about the Guardian Angels? They never get linked to the rlsh movement, but they have been doing safety patrols for over thirty years. I remember they were very controversial when they started up around 1980 and didn't always have the support of the police or city government.
ReplyDeleteI think that Phoenix wanting to break up the altercation was the right mindset, but him rushing in there with pepper spray was probably just a bit to brash... That being said, more people should try to learn from this example if they're going to be involving themselves in the RLSH movement. I really respect the intentions as well as the genuine dedication, but if you plan on participating in actual crime fighting and aren't properly training yourself, then situations like this are bound to get messy.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I also think that the other people involved in this need to be assessed as well. Save the street fighting for Capcom... And, hitting someone with a car? That's disgusting human behavior and had Phoenix, at the very least, not provided a distraction, it seems like this night could have ended much worse.